Same-sex “Marriage” Has Ruined Doctor Who For Me

The second half of Season Seven of Doctor Who starts this Saturday evening on BBC America, and I’m not going to watch it.

I’m a huge fan of the show – well, at least I used to be – and when it returned to the airwaves back in 2005, after about fifteen years of exile, I was excited beyond words. I had watched every episode of the original series when the local PBS station ran it back in the late 80′s, recording them on VHS tapes (for those of you too young to know what VHS is, Google it). Good campy fun with terrible special effects, hammy acting and mostly decent scriptwriting.  I’ve seen every show from Jon Pertwee on (#3), and I’m now of buying DVD episodes of the first two Doctors, so yeah, I’m a fan.

When the hiatus ended, gone were the cheesy effects, adios to the hammy acting (mostly – David Tennant was bit borderline here and there) and welcome back, good scriptwriting.  Well, mostly good, anyway.

Even with all that, though, I’m not watching it anymore.

Same-sex “marriage” has ruined it for me.  Not the fact that it’s a controversial topic, or one that seems to be dominating the culture currently, but in the manner in which it’s used. 

Ever since the show returned, there was a subtle wink and nudge to the gay culture.  Russell Davies, the show’s first executive producer post-reboot, as well as one of the writers, is homosexual (Steven Moffatt is the current producer, and he is not a homosexual, FWIW).  Thus, it wouldn’t have come as a surprise if a character would be homosexual, and as it turned out, Captain Jack Harkness (who headlined a spin-off show called Torchwood, which I never watched), appeared midway through the first season, and was bisexual.  It didn’t make a difference to me, because DR WHO WAS BACK ON THE AIR!!!!!!  Honestly, that’s what I thought, so I didn’t care.  And to be fair, it was never played up all that much on the show, save for the very last episode in which David Tennant portrayed the Doctor. Before regenerating, he visited each of his various companions and friends from the previous 3 seasons.  Jack was in a bar, seated by himself, when he noticed the Doctor standing in the doorway.  Jack saluted (The Doctor’s expression kinda said I’m going bye-bye, so like, see ya, and Jack knew what it meant), while the bartender handed him a folded sheet of paper.  On it was the name of a guy seated down the bar from Jack.  He looked back at the Doctor, who motioned towards the other guy.  Ugh – the Doctor, facilitating a homosexual hook-up.  Not his best moment.  Nor most virtuous.

But having a bisexual character isn’t same-sex “marriage”.

Let me give you four examples from the past few seasons, starting with the oldest first, where same-sex “marriage” was mentioned.  And for those of you who are working their way through the seasons via Netflix or your library – you can rest easy.  As Dr River Song would say:  “No spoilers!”

In the episode “Gridlock“, which aired in 2007 and starred David Tennant as the Doctor, one of the vehicles caught in a never-ending traffic jam is driven a lesbian “married” couple.

In the episode “The Waters of Mars”, which also starred David Tennant and aired in the fall of 2009, one of the Mars-base members mentions to a fellow basemate that his “husband” sent him a funny video message.

In the episode “The Power of Three”, which aired in 2012 and featured Matt Smith as the Doctor, Amy Pond (one of the Doctor’s companions) mentioned to the Doctor that she had been asked to be matron of honor by her girlfriend, who was “marrying” her girlfriend.

In the 2012 Christmas Special “The Snowmen”, which starred Matt Smith as the Doctor and took place in Victorian London, one of the characters, a female Silurian (homo repitilia, or human lizard) named Madame Vestra is “married” to her servant Jenny Flint, a human lady. (Lizard woman + human woman = is it just me, or is this treading close to the line of bestiality?)

Four incidents that I can recall, out of six-and-a-half seasons.  You might be asking, “what’s the fuss?”

Here’s the question I ask myself:  In any of those four circumstances, would the story have suffered in the telling had same-sex “marriage” not been mentioned at all, or if the couples in question were male & female?  Without exception, the answer is No. That being the case, it’s inclusion merely serves as a soapbox for the writer (or producer, or the BBC itself), to promote and propagandize same-sex “marriage”, and set forth nothing more than agenda.  The actors aren’t saying lines that are pertinent to their character – they’re only parroting what the writer believes and wants the audience to accept.

Let me add what made the Christmas Special circumstance a bit more unsettling.  At one point in the episode, Madame Vestra comes face-to-face with the villain, and the villain – the guy everyone is supposed to hate and revile and root against – states with no  uncertain level of disgust, with all the Victorian values he can muster, that he disapproves of her “unnatural” relationship.  Get that?  The bad guy is opposed to same-sex “marriage”. Not the Doctor, not the good guys – the evil villain bent on destroying mankind.  Now, to me, that’s a redeemable quality on the villain’s part, but I highly doubt that was the writer’s intent. In his mind, it was just another reason to hate the villain.

To which I say – bollocks.

Dr Who is being used – marginally at first, and perhaps more assertively as of late – to push an agenda. These incongruous factoids, completely irrelevant to the show and worthless as “character development” or “background”, are glaring and obvious.  Seriously now – did it matter that a lesbian “married” couple was gridlocked anymore than a traditional couple (there were male-female couples in the story as well)?  No, it didn’t.  They were included because the writer wanted them there. That’s plain ol’ bad writing.

This rarely happened in the original series (1963-1989). I can watch any episode and not “hear” the writer speak.  Even if the episode focused on a serious subject – such as “The Green Death”, from Jon Pertwee’s era.  This episode dealt with the dangers and evils of industrial pollution, and the problem of seeking maximum efficiency at the expense of treating people morally and humanely.  The Doctor had some fairly strong things to say about environmental stewardship, and pursuing excellence at any cost – but it was said in character.  The words sounded natural coming from him.  Throw in the fact that a sentient computer had taken over the company – well, it’s what made Dr Who what it used to be.  Now, given it’s huge popularity and success, perhaps a bit of hubris has wound its way into the story development process, and it’s becoming a vehicle for advocacy rather than just plain old fashioned fun and entertainment.

It doesn’t matter what The Agenda is, either.  The characters could have been idly mentioning who they were intending to vote for, or what religion they were, or their opinion on medical marijuana.  To me, it’s a crime in storytelling when you hear the author’s voice rather than the character’s.  It’s a writing cardinal sin to insert useless information that doesn’t drive the story, especially in a 43-minute television program, and instead broadcasts the show’s bigwigs’ ideology.  Entertain me, don’t proselytize me.

What makes this bad, is that the topic of same-sex “marriage” is so polarizing.  This isn’t the same as the first interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.  It’s natural for a man and woman to kiss.  Same-sex “marriage” doesn’t fall into that category, not by a long shot.  Same-sex “marriage” activists seek to reconstruct an institution to the point where it won’t mean anything anymore.  Is it appropriate to wedge that into a sci-fi program, that once upon a time, was billed as a children’s show?  You wouldn’t think so.

I’m not naive – I know the BBC is pro same-sex “marriage”, and that the overwhelming majority of people in the entertainment industry are too.  So when these incidents happened, I wasn’t all that surprised.  They disappointed me, because apparently, entertaining fans with good stories, great effects and new scary monsters (hello Weeping Angels and The Silence!), without cramming in propaganda, wasn’t enough.

Come this Saturday, I won’t be watching Dr Who.  I won’t be trying to figure out the mystery of Clara Oswin Oswald.  Not merely because I might hear another instance of same-sex “marriage”.  No, it’s because I won’t achieve suspension of disbelief.  Instead of being entertained, I’ll be wondering when the writer will make an unnecessary and unwanted appearance.

For me, it’s back to the cheesy effects, hammy acting and decent scripts of the original Dr Who series.  I just bought “The Aztecs”, originally broadcast in 1963.  I bet the writer just lets the actors say their lines, and not his.

UPDATE:  I’ve written a follow-up post to this one, which can be found here, in which I show my appreciation towards those who disagree with my position.

UPDATE 2: I’ve closed comments (for basically the entire blog, not just this post) because a] it’s my blog and I can do what I want; b] I have better things to do than approve or trash ridiculous comments; and c] this post has become an occasion of sin for some people. You may presume I’ve closed comments because I want to avoid a discussion, or I’m feeling bullied, or what have you. And you can think what you want – I really don’t care. But seriously – with little exception, no one has made a cogent, thoughtful, well-reasoned argument, and in all likelihood, no one ever will. So what’s the point? Thanks for reading.

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107 Responses

  1. There’s an old Calvin and Hobbes comic where Calvin asks what “religion is the opium of the masses” meant and in the next frame we see a television set replying, “It means Marx hadn’t seen anything yet.” (here’s the comic) Marx of course was full of crap, but it is undeniable that TV has for a long time been our propaganda box. Me and my generation were raised on it. I can remember pro-gay messages as far back as Cheers. Now it is so bad that almost every show has either favorable gay characters or gay-message episodes.

    Now the only current show I watch is Person of Interest. Everything else is Netflix. Granted, Netflix has a “Gay & Lesbian” category that you can’t get rid of, but it is one way to strictly control what comes into the home.

    • You must understand that the doctor time travels. It is VERY possible that at that time pan-sexuality (That is alien human or otherwise) is possible. It does make sense that it would encounter certain characters who are no heterosexual. The marriage part is meant to show unity (THROUGH TIME AND SPACE!) that allows all forms of life to co-exist. The Doctors main thing is no guns only him his words and a sonic screwdriver (MY GOD I RE READ THAT AND WOW). The show is AMAZING and if you feel that way it only appears far and few between other episodes. I think the doctor would be proud of such a response.

  2. You forgot the fat and skinny anglican priest soldiers at Demon’s Run (which I thought to be one of the worst of all the new episodes- not for the gay marriage alone, but because of the final exposition, where River tells the Doctor that it is his fault that everyone is so terrified of him, and if he would only stop defending himself and those he cares about, they would stop attacking. Or something.) There was also the bi Shakespeare, which was a bit of a nudge wink sort of thing. Shakespeare flirted with the Doctor, and the Doctor mutters under his breath about how a bunch of professors just high fived each other. I actually chuckled as I rolled my eyes.

    While I still intend to watch it, you have a point: political correctness in general is dragging that show down.

    • Oh yeah, I forgot about those guys from “A Good Man Goes To War”. I didn’t care too much for that episode either, but I have to admit [SPOILER ALERT!!!!!], I did not expect the baby to be The Flesh. That was a good twist.

  3. I am really worried about this too. That scene in the Christmas episode really unsettled me, though I wasn’t sure why. Thanks, Larry, for explaining it that way. I’ll stick with the show for now, but I’ll probably have to stop sooner or later. I’m really sad that my 13 year old sister likes it so much.

  4. Through the magic of time travel, I only ever watched the original series on PBS. I also do not have cable or access to BBC. Another advantage of poverty and simple living.


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  6. “Midnight” also had a reference. The woman who is talking through David Tenanat’s mouth. The episode where he tipped off Jack about the gay bloke finished me. Bear in mind also, this is a children’s programme!

  7. This is gonna keep happening. Every comic franchise, sci-fi IP, video game series, etc is having this crap shoehorned into it. Even freaking Archie has a homo character! Might as well delve into the treasury of old stuff.

  8. Knew it was heading this way, saddened to see the day arrived. This is a betrayal of what Doctor Who was meant to be. What a way to ruin the 50th Anniversary year.

  9. Entertainment as propaganda. (Personally I haven’t enjoyed Dr. Who since the Tom Baker days, and it turns out he was a mega jerk off and on the set.)

    • Me too. Even some of the later Tom Baker stuff is a little iffy; I hated that whole White Guardian / Black Guardian crap, although most of the episodes from that period were OK. Somehow science fiction shows seem magnetically drawn to crapola mysticism, never being quite sure whether they are materialistic or not. So, Star Trek has to have the Q Continuujm, the Wormhole Prophets, and Spok’s soul stored in McCoy, and Stargate has all the “ascension” nonsense.

      As for the offscreen aspect, I’m still disappointed in Lalla Ward’s current husband.

  10. I posted the link to this post on my Facebook page.
    By the way…..I had the option of using your photo or the photo of the puppet next to the link. I thought you might prefer that I use the puppet.

  11. Downton Abbey suffered the same fate. If the show had portrayed the times accurately Mr. Barrow would be wearing a prison jumpsuit but nooooo….even the Lord of the manor got all PC and gushy. How do 3% of the population rate such coverage?!

  12. I’m still going to watch it, but I too am extremely weary of the same-sex references. They just seem thrown in there and have ruined the show for me.

    I started out with Series 5, and found great magic and wonder in that series (currently my favorite New Series season). It was only in Series 6 that I began to suspect an agenda with Doctor Who, confirmed by watching the Eccleston/Tennant years and the Series 7 Christmas special.

    For me, the two most offensive moments in Doctor Who are during the 10th Doctor’s Finale, The End of Time, part 2, when he explicitly paired Jack Harkness with Alonso Frame (becoming the only moment in Doctor Who history where he explicitly endorses a homosexual relationship) and the Easter special, “Planet of the Dead” where the Doctor claims that the first Easter was originally not how we imagine it now.

    I’ve recently come to a newfound appreciation of the Classic Series, having watched a lot of the Third Doctor’s period. It is a breath of fresh air, and I dearly hope that the powers that be at BBC will one day be replaced with people less controversial and political. And people wonder why I prefer children’s cartoons these days.

    • The only thing I have to say is “Why do we feel the need to hate on people?” I mean, we as straight people have never been in those people’s shoes. We haven’t the slightest clue as to how they might really feel inside. We’ve never been them, so we have no idea what it’s like to be them. Some people say that they’re only lustful, but from what I’ve seen, I’d say that it’s evidently clear that some people really do fall in love with people of the same sex, and if that’s the case, then I’d say that being in love with someone is a very beautiful thing and that it’s not something anyone should be ashamed of. Plus, why should we tell them that their feelings are wrong when we don’t even know what they’re feeling? To me, being in love is caring deeply about someone and wanting so much to be with them that you would go to great lengths just to be with them, and I clearly see that in a lot of Gay people. Those people care deeply about each other and they want to be with one another so much that they’re willing to protest and possibly put their safety at risk just to try to make their kind of marriage legal. We as straight people may not understand how or why they would want to have any kind of sexual contact with one another, but certainly being in love is something that we can understand and relate to. And, also, if two people are in love, then that is clearly the answer to why they want to have physical contact. They want to express their feelings toward one another. We as straight people do it. We often times express our feelings through sexual contact when we’re in love, and we deem it beautiful. Yet, because of religious and social prejudice, we do not see and often times we refuse to see their love as a beautiful thing.

        • Well, you’re definitely hating on the writers of the show for casually including sexualities different than heterosexuality. Those guys are real sneaky trying to slide homosexual and bisexual people and characters that are open minded toward them into the show like it is a normal, acceptable part of society. Good thing they didn’t get the wool pulled over your eyes, you have helped us to see what those homo loving preachers of equality and acceptance are really up to. The nerve of them to use art as a way of self expression.

  13. Hi Tunces: I, too, had to get rid of cable, and now have very scant seclection – no NetFlix, nothin’. While it Is hard to not have the incessant news, I actually think my mind is clearing up, just a bit. but: being poor, and simple, sometimes…..oh, escapism, I miss ‘ye.

  14. Pingback: Same Sex “Marriage” Has Ruined Dr Who For Me : Catholic Stand

  15. here in the UK there is also a Doctor Who Adventures magazine to accompany the series. it is the biggest selling boys magazine in the 9-12 year old category!!!

  16. I can’t remember what episode it was, but I think it back with Chris Eccleston where there was a comment about how the Doctor isn’t ruffled by same-sex or inter-species relationships because that was how the human species adapted to survive over the centuries. Of course, the same-sex aspect doesn’t really work since they can’t reproduce. I guess, it could work biologically with the inter-species depending on how that species defines male and female. (For some reason, I keep thinking of the Star Trek movie when Kirk thinks he’s kicking a fellow prisoner in the knees but it is really its genitalia.)

    I see what your saying, but I don’t think the references have been quite as in your face since the exit of Russell Davies and Captain Jack. And believe me, you do not want to watch Torchwood. Torchwood had some really great stories and characters, but bisexuality was heavily featured throughout.

  17. I’ll be honest; if I ran from every show and series that had propaganda I disagreed with, I probably wouldn’t watch anything. Of course, that might not be a bad thing, all things considered.

    I’ve lost interest in Doctor Who not because of the propaganda (the propaganda is, I just recognize it, talk about it, and go on) but because the plot got too weird. Basically the writers decided that, if you have a timey-wimey ball, that the plot should be timey-wimey. Of course, the episode where it got overly timey-wimey – “The Impossible Astronaut” – introduced a former CIA agent who was fired for wanting to marry his boyfriend.

    Propaganda has been in Doctor Who for a very long time. You of course pointed out the Barry Letts’ Buddhist influences at the end of Pertwee’s run, such as “The Green Death”, “Invasion of the Dinosaurs”, and “Planet of the Spiders”. Oddly enough, the episode that really pointed out the propaganda to me as a kid was “Resurrection of the Daleks”, near the end of Davison’s run; there was a very subtle pro-abortion bit where one of the characters goes, “There’s always a choice, it’s guaranteed in the (some number) amendment!” Now what subject would require a choice to be guaranteed, hmmm?

  18. Add one more to the pile – “Asylum of the Daleks” featured Clara mentioning that the first boy she “fancied was called Rory. (Pause) Actually, she was called Nina.” This becomes a running gag through the rest of the episode, which brings the tally through the new series to seven? Eight? Excessive no matter how you slice it.

  19. This entry and many of the comments are upsetting to me, as I had previously thought most people watching this show had fairly open minds. Let’s go with an example from season 4, episode 16, (16:30) in which Yuri’s brother is married to another man. Yuri is far from home and listening to a video of his brother talking about a silly money issue, where his husband had bought him a car for his birthday, but with his own money ( something that if the term wife was used wouldn’t have bothered any of you).

    That being said, the year at that time was 2059, just a short distance away from where we are today, but by what I’ve read on this site, too far away to accept for the lot of you. I am a straight, married, and openminded woman, and no one had ever stepped in the way of my right to marry; I see no reason to prevent another person that same right. The main message of Doctor Who is redemption. Not just for the Doctor or his companions, but for those that lived their lives selfishly. He gave them chances to right their wrongs, and while some had a change of heart, many chose to continue the blind path. So you can either continue to live the blind path, refusing mutual liberties and freedoms to your fellow humans… or you can continue to blacken your own hearts.

    • So you can either continue to live the blind path, refusing mutual liberties and freedoms to your fellow humans… or you can continue to blacken your own hearts.

      Not much of a choice, given that the options are the same.

      The episode you cited merely proves that the same sex “marriage” info was unnecessary to the plot. Thus, it was propaganda.

      • It’s not propaganda to show equal representation of marriage – it’s your biased focus with your beliefs that deem it unnecessary – maybe you do not fully understand what propaganda is –
        Hitler had some true propaganda – You will agree with me, you will obey, these people are wrong,….. hmm… maybe it is you with the anti-gay propaganda in this article that people actually should be ‘afraid’ of – I shudder to think that you may have children that you are passing on these anti equality images to, don’t forget to tell your daughter their goal in life is marriage and baby maker and the men should be strong mechanics that don’t cry.

        Archaic viewpoints should be left in the past….., btw the alleged bestiality bit is hilarious – interracial couples! God forbid!

        If you find it that offensive, don’t watch it, but don’t preach to other people about it giving them one sided arguments. I know people who do not accept gay people, but it’s just comical that you have decided there is an ‘agenda’ – better get yourself a foil hat before the ‘gays’ start sending love rainbows via your wi-fi.

    • Open mind. How often we have those two words thrown at us? If “having an open mind” means letting evil into my mind (and heart) to take up residence, pushing out truth, no , I don’t want to be that “open minded”. Those accusations are meant to have us quaking before the kangaroo court of public opinion. It doesn’t matter if everyone else in the whole world is for gay “marriage”, it is still wrong.

      • An “open mind” doesn’t mean letting ‘evil’ as you call it, into your heart. It just means recognizing that so called ‘evil’ and not being a douche bag about it.

        • Being close-minded is OK.. I hope I’m never open-minded enough to believe the following: I’ll survive from falling from the twentieth story of a sky scraper… playing tag with a cheetah is fun… child molestation is OK… I don’t have to file my tax returns… changing my truck’s oil is only a suggestion… $3.50 a gallon is an acceptable gas price…

          …it’s OK to be close minded, folks.

  20. ignorance. holding so much hate for something you dont understand, pathetic. love is love, and the show isnt about certain sexualities. and im glad you stopped watching dr who, dont think your ignorant mind should get the pleasure. and you should really keep up w the times.. its 2013….!

  21. and seriously w the q about wether it was important to show who was getting married, when it was same sex.. of course it matters! more exposure to things lowers ignorance. and also helps confused teens who’re suicidal, they need to be shown that homosexuality is just as ok as being straight.

  22. Writers can put whatever they want into the show because they’re writing it, and honestly, no on gives a damn that you’re not going to be watching it because of Gay marriage. Please come to the 21st century honey, because even though you don’t agree with Gay marriage, many want it to be happen, and happiness is their right. The show is coming with the times, and it is also showing that aliens can have same sex couples as it is. I heard rumors that there’s going to be a gay doctor in the future and I hope it happens. Homosexuality isn’t unnatural.

    • and honestly, no on gives a damn that you’re not going to be watching it because of Gay marriage.

      But you cared enough to tell me that no one cares.

      Please come to the 21st century honey, because even though you don’t agree with Gay marriage, many want it to be happen, and happiness is their right.

      I’m well aware that many want so-called same sex marriage to happen, and that they think it will make them happy. Doesn’t make it right, and it doesn’t mean I’m living in the past.

      The show is coming with the times, and it is also showing that aliens can have same sex couples as it is.

      Riiiight. If aliens having same sex couples (an argument I didn’t make, btw) is part of your basis as an argument for so-called same sex marriage, then your argument is pretty weak.

      Homosexuality isn’t unnatural

      Just because something appears in nature, doesn’t mean it’s natural. There’s no biological reason from a “survival of the fittest” and evolutionary perspective for homosexuality to be natural.

  23. Goodness me you have got your knickers in a twist. I’m a happily married heterosexual woman and just thought these were sweet. You will hate tonight’s episode as Lady Vastra is devastated when it looks as if Jenny might have been killed.

  24. Your more narrow minded then my partner, if your god didnt believe it was ok, free thinking or not he wouldnt have made homosexuality an option at all, there would be no wiring to even think that way.
    But more to the point doctor who is excapism and the writers like to think that if the human race can be open an accepting of aliens and interactions and even friendships with them then surely we can love our own kind and allow them to love whomever and however they choose. I mean seriously you can accept the notion that in hundreds and thousands of years we can have devloped enough that while expanding into the universe we happily coincide with different species in our species and theirs but you cant accept that we can there is interspecies gay marriage. Its not like its about tomorrow for god sake.
    Lastly, its a family show, they arent shoving straight down your throat, its small notions or in this particular case slightly bigger but it cetainly wasnt the central point of the ep. If children are watching it as its a family show it allows them to have a more open range of ideas because if you have children so help them if they only have yours, peope deserve a different view on the issue, put it this way, do you preferr to adjust to it slowly through entertainment shows or parades down the streets day in and day out? I know which i’d choose

  25. Is it necessarily propaganda? What makes one of the things so watchable about the new Doctor Who is that characters all have lots of incidental attributes that, while irrelevant to the plot, make them more enjoyable and interesting. While the BBC obviously isn’t against same-sex marriage, I don’t think the Victorian villain’s disapproval of homosexuality was linked to his villainy, for example (in “Gridlock”, which you mentioned) we had that cat man who also disapproved of homosexuality but was one of the good guys of the episode. We’ve had good bisexual and homosexual characters, and we’ve had non-heterosexual villains too (such as Captain John Hart, or The Master).

    Whether it’s homosexuality or the disapproval of homosexuality that a person percieves as a character flaw, isn’t it more interesting to watch both protagonists and antagonists who are a realisting and human mix of quirks, flaws, and virtues than simplistic, unrealistically flawless cartoon heroes fighting universally cackling, wholeheartedly devoted to evil pantomime villains? The Doctor having a doctorate in cheese making was also a trait that was entirely irrelevant to the plot, but does that mean the BBC is pushing a pro-cheese agenda?

  26. I have also observed and pondered this trend of non-straight characters in Doctor Who, and I am so disappointed in this post and many of the comments. All the show has done is to point out that sexuality doesn’t define a person. The same-sex relationships aren’t pushing any agenda – they’re simply being fair. Just as many children’s television shows include people of varying races to show that the world isn’t made of only white people, BBC is accurately reflecting that the world isn’t made up of only straight people. A show composed completely of heterosexual couples would be equally propaganda filled. We’ve become accustomed to this, but that doesn’t make it remotely true.

    Consider first the biases of countless other shows and decide: What makes me watch them?

    What bias is my own?

  27. I’m sorry, but do these small comments or actions truly matter? If you liked the show as much as you say you would be interested in the story NOT the small pointless suggestions. And you keep saying things about how would it be different or worse or something if it was a traditional couple. Well no, but these are such insignificant mentions and actions in the grand scheme of things so why should a homosexual couple matter? You are blaming the writings for your own non acceptance. Strictly speaking from my opinion, all you achieved in writing this article is proving to be a homophobe. Now that may not be true but you fooled me if it isn’t. (And to everyone who is also complaining about this. It’s ridiculous because it bothers so much that a guy said my husband… Think about it. IS IT EVEN RELEVANT TO THE SHOW?)

  28. Doctor Who is a British TV show and over here sexuality isn’t an issue. I’m sorry that the USA is not yet out of the Stone Age, but you can’t expect TV made primarily for a home audience to take into account the archaic sensitivities of every foreign nation.

  29. Pingback: So-called Same-Sex Marriage, Dr Who, And An Admission | Acts Of The Apostasy

  30. Methinks you deleted some well-reasoned critical comments… I remember a few from before that appear to have magically disappeared.

    • Not true. Except for two I didn’t print because of their ad hominem nature (but I did talk about in my follow up post), all other comments have been allowed to come through and are unedited – even the ones with poor grammar and spelling.

      Besides, the most well reasoned ones are the ones that agree with me. Why would I delete those? :-)

  31. Oh, get over yourself!
    To stop watching a show because it includes “the gay” from time to time is ridiculous!
    You don’t have to like or accept gay people and you obviously don’t have to approve of all the gay inclusion (which IMHO is a good thing, given that there are gay couples in the real world, so why not show them on a tv show). The gay parts of dr who are really not that big and if you found the strength to ignore or tolerate these parts you could continue to enjoy a great show!

      • It seems to me that equating gay people with dog crap is really not objective. Your (legitimate albeit IMO wrong) political views aside: if you feel that strongly about this issue, you are probably right to stop watching dr who. And you should express your beliefs. But don’t be surprised when not only a tv show but society as a whole passes you by at some point.

        • Let me clarify my analogy. Dr Who:brownies::dog crap:propaganda of so-called same sex “marriage”. Never mentioned gay people. Hope that clears it up for you.

          I won’t be surprised when society passes me by as it continues to slide down into the abyss. I’ll be standing on the edge praying for the rest of you.

        • Are you one of those “i have nothing against gays but gay marriage is crap” people? Well, it doesn’t really matter anyway. But i do want to mention that “sliding into the abyss” because of gay marriage is something that people used to say about interracial marriage as well. So far we’re doing well.

  32. Oh, get over yourself, you straight piece of crap. This was hilarious. If I ever make it as an actor, I’ll be sure to have my gay wedding all over your TV. See you soon I hope.

      • Y’know, I am beginning to wonder if the ” mark of the beast” is in reality not a physical mark per se, but rather a ” philosophy” that man is naught but a beast and hence all manner of sexual indulgence should be FAIRLY allowed. Those who support it (forehead) and practice it (hand) do indeed distinguish themselves most loudly from the rest of us.

  33. Pingback: So-Called Same-Sex Marriage, Dr Who, And An Admission | The American Catholic

  34. I’m pro same sex marriage. The way you say it is that we can do without the same-sex references on the show. But the thing is, it’s not really a reference. It is a lifestyle for people just the way heterosexual marriages are a lifestyle. Why can’t some people just let others be happy and marry who they want? Canada has legalized same sex marriage since 2005 and the US is so behind. If there were less people like the person who wrote this article we wouldn’t be so behind in the modern world.

    • Yes, and it is now illegal to voice a dissenting position on homosexuality in Canada. All people who publicly uphold their convictions against homosexuality there are hauled into court and incarcerated and/or fined. Where are the sorry excuses for human beings who kept spouting “Homosexulity and marriage won’t hurt anybody.”? You ” pro” people don’t even bother to give these gross violations of true human rights a thought let alone an answer.

      • So you basically think people who support equal rights for everyone are ‘sorry human beings’? Doesn’t that feel at all wrong to you?

  35. In the episode Gridlock there was a cat man and a human woman that were in a relationship. I think you forgot to harp on about the so-called bestiality there. Also, why are you putting little quotation marks around same-sex “marriage”? Bit annoying that. To not watch Doctor Who anymore because of gay marriage is a pretty pathetic. Personally, I don’t like Doctor Who as much any more because of Steven Moffat’s poor writing style and story arches, River Song’s crappy background and dependency on the Doctor, and pathetic Clara’s all-round nothingness when contributing to stories.

  36. I think you are an idiot. You are narrow minded and put your faith in a belief system, hacked that belief system then further bastardized it. I bet you are a christian which has been boiled down to the description above. Narrow minded idiot

        • Being angry is one thing, but name-calling and insults are never acceptable. I don’t care if people disagree with my opinion – even when they think I have no right to the opinion in the first place. But to resort to insults and name-calling? At that point there’s no use continuing the dialogue because one party isn’t interested in conversation – and maybe never were from the beginning.

    • I agree with everything you say except for the Christian bit,because my entire family is Christian and we accept people no one what their sexually preference is.

  37. keep in mind that its the first time the villian in the 2012 chirstmas episode has seen a lizard lady. But because he is so evil his main focus isn’t that, its the gay marriage that he hates so much because he’s evil….

  38. People like you are why Christianity has such a horrendous reputation. I could understand if you thought the same-sex references were unnecessary and made the writing clumsier, but it became evident quite quickly that you simply have a grouch against heterosexuality. This article’s potential was quickly shot down with your obvious homophobia and narrow-mindedness. Utterly disgusting. ‘Same sex “marriage”‘ the fact that you think quotations are necessary is sickening on its own. Good on you for thinking people should fall in love with someone’s genitals over their soul – oh wait, I’m sorry, I forgot that an all-knowing deity that has no scientific proof of existing and who was certainly not conceived by a bunch of old men looking for a way to control people doesn’t approve of this unnatural behavior, never mind the fact that’s it’s prolific in animals. Keep lapping up the discriminative bullshit that’s preached to you without question. Never grow a pair.

  39. The fact that gay marriage bothers you so much that you cant watch the show is frustrating. I understand your feelings about marriage but i believe there is nothing wrong with it and will always love Doctor Who. Its about time the world changes and step into the light

  40. Poor bigots, we won over the hearts of the masses, and now its too late, your on the wrong side of history and you can’t turn it around, MUHAHAHAHAHAHA

  41. I don’t get your problem with it. Would you have a problem with people who has different skin colours in doctor who? I think its a way for entertainment to make everyone feel proud to be who they are.

  42. The sad thing, is that you’ve made a very solid argument against your own point:

    “In any of those four circumstances, would the story have suffered in the telling had same-sex “marriage” not been mentioned at all, or if the couples in question were male & female? Without exception, the answer is No.”

    Allow me to counter: In any of those four circumstances, does the story suffer because they mentioned same-sex marriage? Without exception, the answer is still no.

    The only way the episodes suffer because of mention of same sex marriages is if you’re a bigoted person who believes in denying others rights and freedoms, believes that homosexuality is wrong, and wants to tell themselves there are no homosexuals anywhere at any time.

    You’re right in that the first three examples could have been heterosexual marriages, but it diminishes nothing by having them be homosexual, the only thing it does is remind us that, yes, homosexual people exist. If you have a problem with that message, congratulations, you’re a bigot. However, you are wrong on the fourth example. The great thing about Vastra and Jenny is how they eschew everything about “Victorian values”. They’re women, they’re independent women, they have a male servant, they take on traditionally male roles (combat and the like), one of them is a lizard, and yes they are gay. It would completely ruin it if they weren’t gay, but… it would remove one element, and if you kept them in a relationship but have one be a man, that could ruin the whole thing.

    Perhaps the most hilarious thing, is that you think that interracial marriage before the civil rights movement was a completely different thing than homosexual marriage is now. I don’t know if that’s willful ignorance or just stupidity, but come on, you HAVE to know how wrong that is. Interracial marriage was viewed almost the exact same: immoral, unnatural, disgusting, and illegal. People were disowned for it, they were shunned for it, they were arrested for it, and they were killed for it. Sound at all familiar? The fact that you can say that a man and a woman kissing, regardless of race, is natural, but homosexuality isn’t is wrong, both morally and objectively.

    You take issue with a pro-homosexual marriage message being in a children’s show? That’s exactly what should be in children’s shows. Children’s shows should teach acceptance, equality, and love for all. The fact that you don’t believe in such things is sad, and a stark reminder of why you shouldn’t be writing children’s shows.

    • AMEN, Jeremy. I only have one thing to dispute in what you said -willful ignorance IS stupidity, so no “either,or” to it. You stated it all very well.

  43. OMG! Will you look at all those references to Hetero-Marriage! I can’t watch a show that would do anything such as portray a variety of characters akin to what the variety in real life looks like! I must go hide in my Bubble!

  44. You know what? I started reading and I had to stop because there were too many bullsh**s. It doesn’t make any sense.
    The Doctor just show us that there shouldn’t be war, but just love, every kind of love. Same-sex love, love between two different species. It doesn’t matter.
    Introducing same-sex marriage hasn’t ruined doctor who. It only has helped to make people like you stop watching it.

  45. I remember reading this post a few months ago when I was still watching season 3 or 4 (Tennant) and dreading those things you mentioned above. Now having watched season 6, I can say that this post is an understatement to say the least. You can barely go two episodes without it getting mentioned. I still watch though. The rest of the show is too good to miss. Just roll my eyes and move on I suppose.

    And FYI to all the trolls: this post isn’t supposed to be an argument against gay marriage. It’s really just saying that the writers shouldn’t be pushing their opinion of the issue on the show. It’d be just as bad if they were constantly preaching about anything. It comes up so often that they are clearly trying to make a statement that there is nothing wrong with it. They’re preaching and frankly I don’t want to hear, just as you wouldn’t if they were constantly saying how a given religion was the right way to live. There’s a time and a place for this debate and this is not it.

    And LGBT issues being dealt with in a children’s program a good thing? Indoctrinate the youth, how lovely. Families should be able to sit down and watch a family show without having to lecture their children on it, whether they agree with it or oppose it. Again, there’s a time and a place for such a discussion.

    And for someone like me, who’s quite torn apart by their position on the issue, I do not want to be reminded of this while watching my favorite TV show. And no, not because I hate gays. Not because I hold anything against them. None of that. First of all, that is wrong, 100% completely wrong, regardless of your belief system. And secondly, it’s against the teaching of the Catholic Church. Yup. Shocking, I know. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the Church does NOT hate gays. In fact, it explicitly states that LGBT individuals are supposed to be treated with as much love and respect as anyone else, even though it states we are not to condone their actions. That’s all. As to why said activities are opposed, a long and complicated explanation follows, which I won’t go into now. That’s something you’ll have to research yourself, and do it please. Quit trolling without the research behind you. You’re being just as hateful as the “bigots” you claim to oppose. People are allowed to disagree with you. That’s not bigotry and you’re just being a hypocrite.

    • Gay marriage, like all civil rights, isn’t really something you can have an opinion on. The only opinion you can morally, legitimately have, is whether or not you want to have a gay marriage. Your opinion on whether gay people should be allowed to get married isn’t so much an opinion on a two-sided question, as it is a determining factor in whether you are a bigoted person.

      This post, like your comment, is absolutely an argument against gay marriage. I suppose, theoretically, it might not be an argument against gay marriage in general (though I’d have to re-read the original to be sure, and I already have my doubts of that), just an argument in seeing or hearing about gay marriage in public. That might not be a clear indictment of gay marriage, but it’s still pretty terrible. It is akin to saying “I have nothing against black people… I just don’t want to see them on TV shows”. Bigoted, no?

      You call what they did “preaching” and say that it comes up so often… it really, really doesn’t. Excluding Captain Jack (because he’s a recurring character, and he’s not gay, he’s “omnisexual”), there have been, what, 5 references to gay marriage? I’ll even give you ten. Ten out of about 90 episodes… almost one-in-ten, which is estimated to be the prevalence of homosexuality. What a coincidence. At no point, however, has it been “preachy”, at least not directly. There’s never been an episode where The Doctor defends a gay character being persecuted by bigots because of their sexuality. That would be preachy (but even that would not be ‘wrong’, The Doctor rescues people unjustly persecuted all the time, it might just be a little too simplistic and ‘real world’ for an episode of Doctor Who). All these references do is reaffirm the message that, yes, gay people exist, and no, there’s nothing wrong with that. Again, if you have a problem with that message (and you may say that you don’t, but your post makes it clear that you do), that’s bigoted.

      “Children’s shows indoctrinating youth by teaching them it’s okay to be gay”, what a lovely concept. I guess that’s indoctrination, the same way it’s indoctrination when children’s shows teach them that bullying is wrong or that 1 plus 1 equals 2. I’m not exactly sure what you want children’s shows to be, if they can’t teach any kind of appropriate lesson. (And again, if your opinion on gay marriage is that it’s wrong, or that having gay characters in shows is wrong, you’re a bigot.)

      I’m well versed in Christian views on homosexuality. I know the whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” line. I know what the bible says about homosexuality, I know what it says about Lance Armstrong (he can’t be a Christian—did you know that?), I know what it says about tattoos and gossip (both sins), I know what is says about murdering your children if they curse your names. Bottom line is there is some really messed up stuff in there, and if you want to live your life by that insanity, that’s your right, but don’t you dare try telling a single other person to live by those rules. And telling you how insane some of those rules are, in today’s day, is not bigoted, it’s just making observations and pointing out your own hypocrisy (how do you feel about tattoo shops operating in your city, seeing tattooed people on your TV shows, and knowing there’s a massive industry built entirely on gossip?).

      People are free to disagree with me, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t bigoted. As I’ve tried to explain, there’s nothing wrong with you not wanting to get “gay married”, that’s your opinion and it’s in no way bigoted, maybe you disagree with the institution of marriage, maybe you don’t want to deal with the legal consequences of marriage, maybe you’re just not gay—lots of completely legitimate and not bigoted reasons for not wanting to get gay married. …But when your opinion shifts to “no one should be able to to get gay married” or “I don’t want to see homosexuals on my TV”… that’s when it’s bigoted. And that’s not really an opinion, it’s a pretty solid fact. You’re free to disagree, of course, but just because you hold a different opinion on that, doesn’t mean your different opinion can’t be bigoted on the virtue of just being an opinion.

  46. Wow, finally some one with sense! Agree with you completely, and I may not watch the second part of the seventh series either. It was never nescesary. Just embarrassing when they put stuff like that in there. You go hun! I am anti gay and I support traditional marriage between a man and woman.

  47. Pingback: Top Ten Fake Reasons Why I’m Done Blogging | Acts Of The Apostasy

  48. Revelation 22:11 ”Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
    Let the vile LGBT terrorists do as they please, in the end the right way will be all that is left.
    And Doctor Who died for me when Tennant fastened a chain to the Earth and pulled it with the TARDIS.

    • I have begun to drift from doctor who lately because of this. Although I haven’t seen the first and second seasons which I plan on watching still. But I will not be watching the seventh season. I already know what happens and I don’t care to see and put a lesbian couple in front of myself and sisters and mom. I am the one who finds TV shows and screens them for my family and I can’t stand it when I have to fast forward of mute gay comments that have gotten continually worse. I am watching “Once Upon A Time” now and I am praying like an idiot they don’t introduce any gay crap. I love that show and would much rather see traditional flirting between man and woman which is in there believe me but it’s better. And easier to explain away when I skip something. It’s natural.

  49. Wait, are you saying that the writers are using gay marriage just so they can get more money, because if you are, that’s pretty much with EVERYTHING in Hollywood! You realize that the industry’s goal is to throw stuff into our faces and make us like it for money! You should make an entire essay about this topic if you feel so strongly about it, because I’m sure this doesn’t just apply to doctor who!

  50. All I’m going to say is: you disgust me. As well as those that would agree with you on a trivial matter like this. But I’ll have to give you some credit. The fact that you are so insecure and prejudice about the gay community that you would not only stop watching a show, but also feel the need to publicly rant about it online, made me laugh.
    It may be a little preachy, but you know what? So is just about every other show out there. And maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to here someone be lectured on the dangers of pollution. Sunday morning children’s cartoons and TV commercials do that enough.
    It is a small, infinitesimal part of the show, so get over it. You need to grow up and learn how to simply enjoy a show as it should be instead of coming up with ridiculous propaganda theories. Get over yourself, and stop acting like the little worm that complained about a “hair in his dirt”.

    • Tell me, how shoul I explain to my son and siblings why a guy is flirting with guys? Or why Jack kissed the Doctor once upon a time?! “Why did he just kiss the doctor? That’s gross!” “I don’t know because he wants to I guess.” “Why?! Guys shouldn’t kiss guys”

      His exacts words bull head. You should like a religion lol. If you don’t like this discussion you need to keep your bs to yourself. Share your opinion if you will. But you have no right to tell people what to do. F off!

      • Umm… the same way you explain to your kids when they ask why a guy is flirting with girls, “Why did that one male character kiss that female character? That’s gross!” “I don’t know, because he wants to I guess.” “Why?! Guys shouldn’t kiss girls, they have cooties!”

        It’s really not that hard, and it’s something every parent has to deal with at some point. If you can’t handle explaining the world to your children, I recommend you keep them highly sheltered from the outside world… but, that’ll stunt their social development and probably lead to them living their lives as outcasts. I guess it really depends on what’s more important to you: not having to explain things to your children, or accepting that some people do things that you don’t and that’s fine.

  51. I have never seen an argument about homosexuality that didn’t boil down to some variation of “that’s gross”, or “god thinks that’s gross, so it’s evil”.
    And I see this hasn’t changed anything. If heterosexual people (like, for example, me) hold hands in public, or mention their spouses, or kiss, no one thinks that’s an “agenda”, or makes a huge deal of it.
    But, if “those people” (now it’s gays, it used to be interracial couples, and so on) do the same things in fiction it HAS to be part of an agenda, or propaganda. It can’t possibly be because the writer thinks that maybe in the future people will have come to accept homosexuality to the point where they can not only be married, but can do the same things others do without people calling them names or accusing them of doing “it” for publicity.
    And it’s not worthless as character development just because you don’t like it. Did people say that having Amy and Rory marry was worthless as character development? Not once, that I saw. But, if they’re gay, then it’s not about plot or character, it’s propaganda. I just can’t take this seriously. It’s really so childish.
    If your child asks you about two men kissing and you feel compelled to explain it, a simple “they love each other” ought to do nicely, unless you’re trying to reinforce a childish revulsion. In which case, maybe you’re just a bad parent. Because if you want your children to grow up into the kind of people who think it’s wrong when others do things they don’t like and find “icky”, you’re a bigot and are trying to pass that on to your children while pretending it’s morality.
    And, if you really want to wall off your life from everything you think is wrong/evil, feel free, but don’t expect anyone else to care. The world will still go on and people will still be writing and consuming media you don’t like.

  52. Alright…To be honest I didn’t even finish your ridiculous post. Are you really that irritated by the fact that they are having small little moments of homosexual relationships? That is what you are focusing on? Of EVERYTHING in Doctor Who, that is what you zero in on. The fact that there are a few homosexual relationships or notions in the show? You are an idiot.
    Secondly, I understand why they are tossing it in the show. It is simply because, in case you didn’t know, not all relationships are straight! Not every relationship in the universe and in all other dimensions must be simply between a man and a woman. There is nothing wrong with breaking the monotony of the show by tossing in curve ball or two. And did you honestly just try and say that they are promoting beastiality because of Madame Vestra and Jinny being together? That is without a doubt the most ridiculous phrase I have ever heard. You must be a republican.
    Every episode, in my opinion, is a masterpiece, and because there is a little homosexuality doesn’t make it any less of such. You sir, are simply an idiotic person who feels some unnecessary source of fear or distaste for homosexuality. This is the 20th century. Grow up, toss away your Victorian values, and stop watching the show if it bothers you so much.

  53. This is ridiculous. Doctor Who, despite having fantasy elements, represents real issues and the real world, and the real world (shock, horror) has gay people in it. I think it’s really homophobic, like most views you express here, to claim that programmes showing gay people are trying to spread propaganda. I think programmes showing only straight marriage would be spreading propaganda. I don’t understand how you can call yourself a member of Christianity, a religion supposedly founded on love and kindness, when you’re so hating of people for something they can’t change about themselves. Frankly, it’s as bad as racism.

  54. Look, some people are gay. This is a thing a LOT of you need to understand. And what you are referring to as “natural” and “traditional” is neither. Humans are all literally organic beings. Therefore whatever (or whomever) we do (or love) isn’t “unnatural” or “abnormal”. And using the argument that Doctor Who is a children’s programme and children are unable to deal with the sight of anything other than a “traditional” relationship is, I’m sorry to say, complete bullshit. Children are not born with prejudiced views as to what “natural” and “unnatural” love is. Adults like you force children into “proper” beliefs, dictating what is “right” and what is “wrong”.
    And, with all due respect, I don’t think the BBC is going to give a shit about one less homophobic viewer not watching one of their programmes. Grow up.

      • You think that you’re so above us all in your beliefs, but, in reality, you have no proper arguments to counteract ours. You nitpick, pointing out grammatical errors or try to humiliate the person that’s commented and put forth a well thought-out series of points. When faced with what you know, deep down, to be the truth, you panic, and, like a bully, resort to childish insults and teasing to console yourself.

        • Well, until someone comes up with an argument against the actual point of my post – that an indicator of poor writing is obvious signs of a writer’s biases (good or bad), and in the case of Dr Who, the bias is pro same sex marriage, which is something God and the Catholic Church are opposed to – then I’ll engage with a commenter in a proper argument. Til now, most people have called me a homophobe or an idiot for a myriad of reasons. Those aren’t arguments. Those are ad hominem attacks.

          Those who have attempted arguments still missed the point – even those who have tried making some well-thought out points. Having missed the point, they’re irrelevant, and when something’s irrelevant, I have two options: either not engage, or make a joke. Most times I choose not to engage, other times I make a joke.

          Trust me – I’m not panicking. The ones who are panicking are those who feel so compelled to call a complete stranger all sorts of names because he chooses to no longer watch a TV show. I’m not the one who needs to grow up.

        • You’ve said a load of insulting things about gay people and are taking “homophobe” as an ad hominem? It is not, it’s the only accurate and succinct summary of your position. You are insisting on viewing Doctor Who through a conservative US-centric political prism when it has never existed in such. It is a silly series about a crazy old man and his box produced by BBC Wales. The idea of Same Sex Marriage is just not an issue here. It’s legal, it’s just something that happens, it’s a part of the society in which Doctor Who exists. YOU are the only one making it an issue, imposing your religion and your social context where it doesn’t fit.

          I’m sure by the same token the idea of River Song flying the Tardis might outrage people in Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed to drive. But you can’t really expect the BBC to cater for every backwards group of conservatives across the world who irrationally hate various demographics because the voices in their heads told them they were evil, can you?

  55. Really? Why in god’s name would this bother you so much? I’m a heterosexual man and don’t care in the slightest if they have gay characters. You said it yourself they dont affect the story at all, Just ignore it and enjoy the show and stop being so closed minded. The occasional nod to the gay community doesn’t affect you or the show, grow up dude.

  56. You’re disgusting. There is nothing wrong with the gay overtones of Doctor Who and there is DEFINITELY nothing wrong with gay marriage. I feel so sorry for you, and may God have mercy on your soul for being so close minded and awful. The God I know is loving and accepting of every person. God created every person on Earth, and knew his/her futures- so how could his creations be something against His will? That doesn’t make any sense. To condemn homosexuals is to proclaim that you know better than God – and how dare you?

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